Frage zum Stillen

[Gast Hakeem]

Salam alleikom

 

Ich bin zwar ein Bruder aber habe trotzdem eine Frage zum Stillen/Muttermilch. Und zwar gibt es doch die Möglichkeit (soweit ich weiss) das die Frau ihre eigene Milch auf irgendeiner Art und Weise abpumt und in ein Flässchen tut. Fragt mich nicht wie das geht, aber ich glaub das gibt es. Ist das auch im Islam erlaubt?

 

Noch eine Frage, die aber vielleicht ein wenig eigenartig ist, aber es interessiert mich trotzdem (obwohl es mich irgendwie eckelt). Wäre es Haram wenn der Ehemann die Milch "probieren" würde. Weil wir Menschen trinken ja auch die Milch von Tieren. Wie ist es da mit der Milch von Menschen? Und wenn dies erlaubt ist, wie ist dann mit dem Trinken von "fremder" Milch? Ich möchte betonen das ich wirklich nicht vorhabe etwas derartiges zu tun. Es ist aber theoretisch Möglich das dies getan wird. Und daher diese Fragen.

 

 

Wa Salam

[Batul]

Bruder Hakeem,

 

Also zu allererst möchte ich klarstellen, dass ich die Antwort NICHT 100% kenne, und mir dieser Gedanke echt seltsam vorkommt, ihn aber auch schon mal als Fragestellung gehört habe, ob es denn dem Ehemann erlaubt sei. Aber vom logischem her würde ich zu einem Nein tendieren, denn wenn zwei Kinder gleichzeitig von einer Frau gestillt werden, so sind sie doch "Geschwister", und die Frau ist somit auch "Mutter" dieses Gestillten, würde man das ausweiten auf den Ehemann, so wäre die Ehefrau ja praktisch auch seine "Mutter". Aber inwieweit man das Übertragen kann, kann ich nicht beantworten. Es waren ledigtlich meine Gedankengänge, die ich mir hier zusammengereimt habe. Vielleicht hat der ein oder andere noch eine präzisere Antwort für dich parat.

 

Liebe Grüße

 

W'salam

 

Batul

[Gast Hakeem]

Salam alleikom

 

Vielen Dank für deine Antwort. Aber was ist mit der Erlaubniss die Milch abzupumpen?

 

Wa Salam

[Gast]

 

Also, was das abpumpten anbelangt, so ist es halal. Ich kenne das aus meinem persönlichen Bekanntenkreis, bei der eine Mutter abpumpen musste, da das Kind noch im Brutkasten war, und es durch die Falsche( abgepumpte Muttermilch) gestillt wurde.

Ich hoffe ich konnte dir eine zufriedenstellende Antwort geben.

 

w'salam

 

Liebe grüße

 

Batul

[sadiq]

Salamun alaikum!

 

 

Aber vom logischem her würde ich zu einem Nein tendieren, denn wenn zwei Kinder gleichzeitig von einer Frau gestillt werden, so sind sie doch "Geschwister", und die Frau ist somit auch "Mutter" dieses Gestillten, würde man das ausweiten auf den Ehemann, so wäre die Ehefrau ja praktisch auch seine "Mutter".

 

ich wollte schwester Batul nur darauf hinweisen das in der jafaaritischen Rechtsschule, ein Fremdes Kind das von einer Mutter Gestillt wird erst dann zu ihrem kind durch stillen wird, wenn das kind mehrmals von der Mutter satt gestillt wurde. bei der der anzahl gibt es verschieden Meinungen aber alle sind sich einig "ab 10" mal satt stillen!

 

somit ist die Frage von Bruder Hakeem mit deiner Antwort schwester Batul nicht beantwortet, denn er meinte:

 

Wäre es Haram wenn der Ehemann die Milch "probieren" würde.

Er ging vom probieren aus nicht von mehreren Mahlzeiten

 

Ich habe mich Imformiert die antwort ist: es gibt unterschiedliche Meinungen zu diesem Thema, aber auch wenn der Mann dies machen sollte so würde seine Frau niemals für ihn Haram werden auch wenn er tausend mal von ihr gestillt wurde bleibt sie seine Frau und nicht seine Mutter.

 

 

Im gegensatz zu den sunnitischen rechtsschulen da ist es Haram und da wird auch seine Frau für ihn Haram (sie ist dan nicht mehr seine frau)! :schock:

[sadiq]

es gibt in dem Buch "wie ich recht geleitet wurde" in einem kapitel eine geschichte über zwei die schon Ferheiratet waren und dann festgestellt haben das sie von der selben Mutter gestillt wurden. Eine wahre geschichte. Passt dazu vielleicht nicht ganz aber so etwas

vielleicht lest ihr selber mal nach

hier der Link:

http://www.islam-pure.de/tijani/aufforderu...DieRechtleitung

ihr müsst wenn ihr auf dieser Seite dann seit runter scrollen bis die Fette Überschrieft erscheint "Die Rechtleitung" ab da fängt die geschichte an!

 

waslam

[Gast]

Salam zusammen, also Bruder Sadiq es stimmt nicht, da ich ehemalige hannefitin bin, weiss ich, dass der Mann nicht seiner Frau haram ist,wenn er von ihrer Brust gestillt wird, es ist also nicht verboten

[Batul]

Bruder sadiq

 

Zu erst möchte ich noch einmal betonen, dass ich es nicht 100% weiß, und es nur meine eigenen Gedankengänge waren, die mich dazu veranlasst haben zum Nein zu tendieren, allerdings muss ich nun doch meine eigene Meinung korrigieren, da ich ein wichtiges Kriterium bei dieser ich nenn es mal "Milchverwandtschaft" übersehen habe:

Meine bescheidenen Kenntnisse zu urteilen, müssen die gestillten "Kinder" nicht nur zur selben Zeit gestillt und gesättigt worden sein, sondern auch ungefähr das gleiche Alter besitzen, um in eine "Milchverwandtschaft" zu kommen...Also, beim Ehemann und dem gestillten Kind scheidet das ja dann wohl aus

 

Ich hoffe ich habe nicht für allzugroße Verwirrung gesorgt

 

Liebe Grüße

 

w'salam

 

Batul

[sadiq]

salam schwester Batul!

 

Es tut mir leid schwester ich meintes es nicht böse mit der antwort, ich wusste es bis gestern auch nicht, ich habe nähmlich einen gelehrten danach gefragt und er hat mich darüber aufgeklärt!!!

 

Baraka allah fiki schwester Batul

 

wasalam

[Batul]

 

Habe es auch nicht als solches verstanden lieber Bruder Sadeq

Außerdem ist es das gute Recht eines jeden von uns den anderen auf Fehler oder ähnliches hinzuweisen.

 

Liebe Grüße

 

 

Batul

[Gast Mustafa]

Asalamualaikum liebe Geschwister im Islam,

 

wir alle lernen nie aus inshaAllah, und ich womöglich als einer der letzten, aber

 

müssen die gestillten "Kinder" nicht nur zur selben Zeit gestillt und gesättigt worden sein, sondern auch ungefähr das gleiche Alter besitzen, um in eine "Milchverwandtschaft" zu kommen...Also, beim Ehemann und dem gestillten Kind scheidet das ja dann wohl aus

 

wo steht / wer sagt das?

 

 

Nach meinen bescheidenen Kenntnissen etabliert sich die Geschwisterschaft in Sachen Muttermilch... über die Mutter,

und dabei (so hatte ich es verstanden) ist es irrelevant, ob zwischen der jeweiligen Etablierung, sprich dem regelmäßig frequentem und andauerndem Stillen Jahre oder auch Jahrzehnte liegen.

 

Allein die Maßgabe, daß es jeweils innerhalb der ersten beiden Lebensjahren erfolgen muß, sei relevant.

 

 

Der Grund, weshalb dies einen gewissen Bekanntheitsgrad erreicht hatte war folgender:

 

http://www.shia-forum.de/index.php?showtopic=9

c)

"Nehmt die Hälfte eurer Religion von dieser...", erkennen wir, daß diese Hadith falsch ist.

Es ist sicher ausreichend, den Vorfall vom Säugen Erwachsener zu nennen, den sie vom Propheten Allah's (s.) überlieferte, und den Muslim in seinen Sahih und Malik in seiner Muwatta dokumentierte. Alle anderen Frauen haben dies zurückgewiesen und sich geweigert, entsprechend den Angaben der Aisha zu handeln.

Eine Methode, "Mahram" zu werden (wie Nahe stehend…, verboten zu heiraten) ist durch Säugen. So kann eine Frau ein Kind bis maximal zum vollendeten 2. Lebensjahr säugen und wird dadurch dessen "Milchmutter" (d.h. in etwa, wenn es regelmäßig, kontinuierlich ist, auf daß es sowohl den Hunger stillt und maßgeblich zum Wachstum beiträgt).

Es ist verboten für Frauen, irgendwelche Körperteile wie Busen, Brust, Haare und so weiter vor (religiös) Erwachsenen zu entblößen, die nicht Mahram sind.

Doch Aisha behauptete, eine Frau dürfe einen erwachsenen Mann säugen, der Sexualität verstand und dem sogar ein Bart wuchs!

Für eine Frau, die solch einen erwachsenen Mann säugen möchte bedeutet dies:

1) Diesem erwachsenen Mann zu erlauben, ihr Haus zu betreten,

2) Absichtlich ihre Kleidung zu öffnen (mit der Absicht des Säugens)

3) Diesem Fremden zu erlauben, Teile ihres Körpers zu sehen, Brust, Busen usw.

4) Diesem Mann zu erlauben, ihren Körper zu berühren. …

Basierend auf der Fatwa der Aisha wird damit dieser Mann zu ihrem Mahram … und darin sieht sie keinerlei Problem.

 

Hier einige Ahadith, worin sie solch Schamlosigkeit dem Propheten unterzuschieben sucht:

Aisha überliefert daß Sahla Bint Suhail zu Allah's Apostel (s.) kam und sagte: Gesandter Allah's, ich sehe auf dem Gesicht von Abu Hudhaifa (Zeichen der Abscheu) beim Eintreten von Salim in (unser Haus), woraufhin Allah's Apostel (s.) sagte: Säuge ihn. Sie sagte: Wie kann ich ihn säugen, wo er doch ein erwachsener Mann ist? Allah's Gesandter (s.) lächelte und sagte: Ich weis doch daß er ein junger Mann ist. Amr fügte in seiner Überlieferung hinzu, daß er an der Schlacht von Badr teilnahm und und in der Überlieferung von Ibn Umar (sind die Worte): Allah's Gesandter (s.) lachte.

Sunni Ref.:

Sahih Muslim, English Version, v2, Chapter DLXVI, titled: Suckling a Young boy,

Tradition #3424 + 3426

Zainab, Tochter von Abu Salama überliefert: Ich hörte Umm Salama, die Frau von Allah's Apostel (s.), zu Aisha sagen: Bei Allah, Ich mag nicht gesehen werden von Jungen, die die Periode der Fürsorge (Säuge/Unterhaltspflichtige Zeit) hinter sich haben, worrauf sie (Aisha) sagte: Wieso dies? Sahla, Tochter von Suhail kam zu Allah's Gesandten (s.) und sagte: Allah's Gesandter, Ich schwöre bei Allah, daß ich auf dem Gesicht von Abu Hudhaifa (Zeichen der Abscheu) sehe beim Eintreten von Salim (ins Haus), woraufhin Allah's Gesandter (s.) sagte: Säuge ihn. Sie (Salah Bint Suhail) sagte: Er hat einen Bart. Doch er (s.) sagte (widerum): Säuge ihn, und dies wird entfernen was da ist (an Zeichen von Abscheu) auf dem Gesicht von Abu Hudhaifa.

Sunni Ref.: Sahih Muslim, English Version, v2, Chapter DLXVI, titled: Suckling a Young boy, Tradition #3428.

Umm Salama, die Frau von Allah's Apostel(s.), sagte daß alle Frauen von Allah's Apostle (s.) die Idee bestritten, daß jemand mit dieser Art des Unterhalts (gesäugt worden zu sein nach der vorgeschrieben Periode) zu ihnen kommen sollte ... und niemand würde die Erlaubnis erteilt (unser Haus) zu betreten mit dieser Art des Unterhalts und wir unterstützen nicht diese Perspektive.

Sunni Ref.: Sahih Muslim, English Version, v2, Chapter DLXVI, titled: Suckling a Young boy, Tradition #3429.

Aisha selbst überlieferte:

'A'ischa berichtete: Allah's Gesandter (s.) trat bei mir ein, während ein Mann nahe bei mir saß. Ich sah Zeichen von Ärger auf seinem Gesicht und ich sagte: Gesandter Allah's, er ist mein Bruder durch Unterhalt (Milchgeschwister), worauf er sagte: Berücksichtigt (richtig) wer eure Brüder sind aufgrund von Unterhalt (Milchgeschwister), denn dieses betrifft Hunger (d.h. (Stillen) der Säuglinge).

Sunni Ref.: Sahih Muslim, English Version, v2, Chapter DLXVI, titled: Suckling a Young boy, Tradition #3430.

Also al-Bukhari narrated: Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 3.815 Narrated Aisha:

Once the Prophet came to me while a man was in my house. He said, "O Aisha! Who is this (man)?" I replied, "My foster brother" He said, "O Aisha! Be sure about your foster brother, as fostership is only valid if it takes place in the suckling period (before two years of age)."

Regarding the scandal of the above traditions, the translator of Sahih Muslim (Abdul Hamid Siddiqui, Saudi Arabia) wrote in the footnote of the above traditions that:

This Chapter (i.e., suckling a young boy) is one of the most difficult chapters of this book. Fosterage which makes marriage unlawful is only that which has been referred to in the Holy Quran: "And the (divorced) mothers may nurse their children for two whole years if they wish to complete the period of nursing." (2:233) It implies that the fosterage within two years of the child's birth is effective in determining the nature of relationship, and that of the subsequent period, and specially in a grown-up age, is NOT effective.

This view is held by Imam Shafi'i, Imam Ahmad, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Muhammad, and is supported on the authority of Ibn Mas'ud, Abu Huraira, Ibn Abbas, Ibn Umar.

Sunni Ref.: Footnote of Sahih Muslim,English vers.by AbdulHamid Siddiqui,v2,p43

 

wasalam.

Mustafa

[Batul]

Bruder Mustafa,

 

 

Zitat:

müssen die gestillten "Kinder" nicht nur zur selben Zeit gestillt und gesättigt worden sein, sondern auch ungefähr das gleiche Alter besitzen, um in eine "Milchverwandtschaft" zu kommen...Also, beim Ehemann und dem gestillten Kind scheidet das ja dann wohl aus

 

 

wo steht / wer sagt das?

 

diese Frage kann ich dir nicht beantworten wo das steht, allerdings gab es mal bei uns in der Stadt eine Diskussion, ob zwei, die gerne heiraten wollten dies tun dürfen, weil die Mutter der Braut sich daran erinnerte, dass sie den damaligen Säugling ebenfalls gesäugt zu haben. Diese sind dann zu einem Scheich gegangen und haben ihn nach den Bedingungen gefragt, und dieser hätte mit unter geantwortet, das als Bedingung für die Milchverwandtschaft, auch ein ungefähres gleiches Alter bestehen müsste. Ich sah bis heute keinen Grund diese Aussage ernsthaft zu bezweifeln...Aber irgendwo gelesen habe ich es nicht.

 

Liebe Grüße

 

 

Batul

[Gast Mustafa]

Asalamualaikum Schwester Batul.

 

Ich denke, daß der Shaikh einfach mißverstanden wurde, anders kann ich es mir nicht erklären.

Anbei die Gesetzestexte von Khoi und Sistani (auf englisch halt), um sich mal einen Überblick zu verschaffen (auf daß auch Du weiterhin keinen Zweifel hast, nun halt dahingehend, daß einfach das eine oder andere Mißverständnis vorliegt)

 

 

 

Ay. Khoei:

Orders Regarding Suckling A Child

2473. If a woman suckles a child with the conditions which will be told in Article 2483 that child becomes mahram of a number of persons as shown below:

(i) The woman herself (i.e. the woman who suckles it) and she is called Rizai mother (foster mother).

(ii) The husband of the woman who is the owner of the milk; he is called Rizai father (foster father).

(iii) Father and mother of that woman, and all in their upward line although they may be foster father and foster mother.

(iv) The children to whom that woman has given birth or those who are born later.

(v) The children of the children of that woman including all going in the downward line whether they are born through her children other children have suckled them.

(vi) The sister and brother of that woman even though they may be Rizai i.e. may have become her foster sister and brother because of sucking milk.

(vii) Paternal uncle and paternal aunt of that woman even though they may be Rizai.

(viii) Maternal uncle and maternal aunt of that woman even though they may be Rizai.

(ix) The descendants of the husband of that woman whose husband is the owner of the milk, how much so ever down they may go, although they may be hit foster children

(x) Father and mother of that husband who is the owner of the milk how much so ever above they may go in the line.

(xi) Sister and brother of the husband who is the owner of the milk although they may be his foster sister and brother.

(xii) Paternal uncle and paternal aunt and maternal uncle and maternal aunt of the husband who is the owner of the milk how much so ever above they may go in the line although they are his foster uncles and aunts.

 

There are some other persons also (details regarding whom will be given in the following Articles) who become mahram on account of sucking milk.

 

2474. If a woman suckles a child with the condition which will be mentioned in Article 2483 the father of the child cannot marry the girls whom that woman has given birth but it is permissible for him to marry her foster daughters although the recommended precaution is that he should not marry them. Moreover, he cannot also marry the daughters of the husband who is the owner of the milk although they may be his foster daughters. And in both the cases if any one of them is his wife at present his marriage becomes void.

2475. If a woman suckles a child with the conditions mentioned in Article 2483 the husband of that woman who is the owner of the milk does not become mahram of the sisters of that child, but the recommended precaution is that he should not marry them. Furthermore, the relatives of the husband do not become mahram of the sister and brother of that child.

2476. If a woman suckles a child she does not become mahram of the brother of that child. Moreover, the relatives of that woman do not become mahram of the brother and sister of the child suckled by her.

2477. If a person marries a woman, who has suckled a girl fully and has sexual intercourse with her, he cannot many that girl.

2478. If a person marries a girl, he cannot marry the woman who has suckled that girl fully.

2479. A man cannot marry a girl who has been suckled fully by his mother or paternal grandmother. Moreover, if the wife of the father of a man i.e. his stepmother suckles a girl out of the milk of his father, he cannot marry that girl. And if a person marries a suckling girl and thereafter his mother or his paternal grandmother or the wife of his father i.e. stepmother suckles that girl the marriage becomes void.

2480. A man cannot marry a girl who has been suckled fully by his sister or by his brother's wife. And the position is the same if that girl is suckled by that man's niece (sister's daughter or brother's daughter) or the granddaughter of his sister or the granddaughter of his brother.

2481. If a woman suckles the child of her daughter i.e. her granddaughter or grandson the daughter becomes unlawful for her husband, and the same order applies if she suckles the child of the husband of her daughter from another wife. In case, however, a woman suckles the child of her son the wife of her son who is the mother of the suckling child does not become unlawful for her husband.

2482. If the wife of the father of a girl i.e. stepmother suckles the child of the husband of that girl with the milk of that girl's father the girl becomes unlawful for her husband, whether the child is the offspring of that very girl or of some other woman.

 

Conditions in Which To Suckle A Child Becomes The Cause Of Being Mahram

 

2483. The following are the eight conditions under which suckling a child becomes the cause of being mahram *:

(i) The child sucks the milk of a woman who is alive. It is of no consequence it milk is meted from the breast of a woman who is dead.

(ii) The milk of the woman is not the result of an unlawful act. Hence, if the milk of an illegitimate child is given to another child the latter will not become the mahram of anyone.

(iii) The child sucks milk from the breast of the woman. Hence if milk is poured into its mouth it is of no consequence.

(iv) The milk is pure and unadulterated.

(v) The milk belongs to one husband only. Hence, if a woman, who is still in a position to suckle a child, is divorced and marries another man and becomes pregnant and the milk of the first husband still remains in her body till she is delivered of the child and she feeds another child eight times with the milk of her first husband before giving birth to her own child and feeds the same child seven times with the milk of her second husband that other child will not become the mahram of anyone.

(vi) The child does not vomit the milk on account of illness. And if the child vomits the milk, the obligatory precaution is that the persons who are to become his mahram on account of suckling of milk, should not marry him and should not look at him as a mahram.

(vii) Fulfilling all the legal conditions the child sucks milk fifteen times or as will be explained in the following Article sucks his fill during one day and one night or is allowed to suck so much milk that people say that because of that suckling his bones have become strong and flesh has appeared on his body. And in case the child is allowed to suck milk even ten times and during these ten times there is no gap even to give it food, the obligatory precaution is that the persons who are to become his mahrams on account of the suckling of milk should not marry him and should not look at him as a mahram.

(viii) The child does not complete two years of his age, and, if he is suckled after he has completed two years of his age, he does not become the mahram of anyone. And even if, for example, he sucks milk (eight times before completing his two years of his age and sucks it seven times after completing his two years he does not, even then, become the mahram of anyone. In case, however, more than two years have passed since a woman gave birth to her child and she is still in a position to suckle a child and does suckle a child that child will become the mahram of those who have been mentioned above.

 

2484. In order to become mahram by sucking milk it is necessary that the child does not take any food during one day and night and does not also suck the milk of any other woman. However, if he takes so little food that people do not say that he has taken food in between, there is no harm in it. Moreover, he should suck the milk of one woman fifteen times and during these fifteen times he should not suck the milk of any other woman and should suck milk every time without a gap. However, if while sucking milk he takes fresh breath of air or waits a little so that it is treated to be one suck from the time he takes the breast in his mouth till the time he has sucked his fill there is no harm in it.

2485. If a woman suckles a child with the milk of her husband and then marries another man and suckles another child with the milk of her second husband those two children do not become mahram of each other, although it is better that they do not marry each other.

2486. If a woman suckles a number of children with the milk of one husband all of them become mahram of one another as well as of the husband and of the woman who suckled them.

2487. If a man has many wives and every one of them suckles a child in accordance with the conditions mentioned above all those children become mahram of one another as well as of that man and of all those women.

2488. If a man has two wives each one of them can suckle a child, and if, for example, one of them gives milk to a child eight times and the other gives him milk seven times the child does not become the mahram of any one of them.

2489. If a woman gives full milk to a boy and a girl out of the milk of one husband the sisters and brothers of that girl do not become mahram of the sisters and brothers of that boy.

2490. A man cannot marry without the permission of his wife those women who become her nieces (sister's daughter or brother's daughter) owing to the sucking of milk. Furthermore, if a person commits sodomy with a boy he cannot many his foster daughter, sister, mother or paternal grandmother i.e. those women who have become his daughter, sister, mother and paternal grandmother by means of sucking milk.

2491. A woman who suckles the brother of a person does not become his mahram, although the recommended precaution is that he should not marry her.

2492. A man cannot marry two sisters although they may be foster (i.e. may have become sisters of each other by means of sucking milk). In case, therefore, he marries two women and understands later that they are sisters and in case their marriages took place at one and the same time he has the option to adopt any one of them. In case, however, the marriages did not take place at one time the first marriage is valid whereas the second is void.

2493.If a woman suckles the following persons with her husband's milk her husband does not become unlawful for her although it is better to observe precaution.

(i) Her own brother and sister.

(ii) Her paternal uncle and paternal aunt and paternal uncle and maternal aunt.

(iii) The descendants of her paternal uncle and her maternal uncle.

(iv) Her nephew (brother's son)

(v) Brother or sister of her husband.

(vi) Her nephew (sister's son) or the nephew (sister's son) of her husband.

(vii) Paternal uncle and paternal aunt and maternal uncle and maternal aunt of her husband.

(viii) Granddaughter (daughter's daughter) and grandson

 

(daughter's son) of another wife of her husband.

 

2494.If a woman suckles the paternal aunt's daughter or maternal aunt's daughter of a man she (the woman who suckles) does not become mahram of that man. However, the re commended precaution is that he should refrain from marrying that woman.

2495. If a man has two wives and one of them suckles the paternal uncle's son of the other the wife, whose paternal uncle's son is suckled, does not become unlawful for her husband.

 

Ways And Manners Of Nursing A Child

 

2496. The child's mother is the best woman to suckle a child. It is better that she does not claim recompense from her husband for suckling the child, although it is a good thing that he should reward her for that. However, if the mother demands more recompense as compared with a wet nurse, her husband can entrust his child to the wet nurse.

2497. It is recommended that the wet nurse, whose services are obtained for a child, should be Twelver Shi'ah, chaste and good looking, and it is abominable that she is not a Twelver Shi'ah or is ugly, ill humored or illegitimate. It is also abominable to entrust the child to a wet nurse who has given birth to an illegitimate child.

 

Miscellaneous Problems Regarding Nursing A Child

 

2498. It is recommended that a woman is prevented from suckling any and every child, because it is possible that it may be forgotten as to which of them she has suckled and later the two persons who are mahram of each other may contract marriage.

2499. It is recommended that those who become relatives of one another by means of sucking milk should respect one another. However, they do not inherit from one another and do not enjoy the rights which relatives enjoy over one another.

2500. It is recommended that if possible a child should be suckled for full two years

2501. If the right of the husband is not infringed upon giving milk a woman may suckle the child of another person without the permission of her husband. However, it is not permissible that she should suckle a child owing to whose suckling she becomes unlawful for her husband. For example, if her husband has married a suckling girl she should not suckle that girl, because if she suckles that girl she herself becomes her husband's mother-in-law and thus becomes unlawful for him.

2502. If a person desires that his sister-in-law (his brother's wife) should become his mahram he should contract a fixed time marriage with a suckling girl, for example, for two days and during those two days the wife of his brother should suckle that girl mentioned in Article 2483.

2503. If a man says before marrying a woman that on account of sucking milk that woman is unlawful for him for example, if he says: "I have sucked the milk of that woman's mother" and it is possible to verify it, he cannot marry that woman. And if he says this after marriage and the woman also accepts his word, the marriage is void. Hence it the man has not had sexual intercourse with her or has had sexual intercourse but at the time of sexual intercourse the woman knew that she was unlawful for him she is not entitled to any dower. And if she learns after sexual intercourse that she was unlawful for the man the husband should pay her dower according to the usual dower of other women like her.

2504. If a woman says before marriage that she is unlawful for a man on account of sucking milk and if it is possible to verify this thing she cannot marry that man. And if she says this after marriage it is like the man saying after marriage that the woman is unlawful for him and the order in this regard has been given in the previous Article 2505. Suckling a child which becomes the cause of being mahram can be proved by the following two things:

(i) Giving information in this behalf by a group of persons whose word is believable.

(ii) Two just men, or one man and two women or four women who are just testify this fact. It is, however, necessary that they should also mention the conditions of suckling the child. For example, they may say. "We have seen such and such child for twenty four hours sucking milk from the breast of such and such woman and during this time he has not eaten anything else." And similarly they should also narrate in detail the conditions which have been mentioned in Article 2483.

 

2506. If it is doubted whether or not a child has sucked the quantity of milk which becomes the cause of becoming mahram or it is thought that he has sucked that quantity of milk the child does not become the mahram of anyone but it is better to observe precaution.

 

 

Ay. Sistani:

Rules Regarding Suckling a Child

2473. * If a woman suckles a child with the conditions which will be mentioned in rule 2483, that child becomes Mahram of the following persons:

(i) The woman herself (i.e. the woman who suckles it) and she is called Riza'i mother (milk mother).

(ii) The husband of the woman (for the milk belongs to him); he is called Riza'i father (milk father).

(iii) Father and mother of that woman and all in their upward line, even if they are milk father and milk mother.

(iv) The children born of that woman, or those who are born to her later.

(v) The children of the children of that woman, however low, regardless of whether they are born of her children or her children had suckled them.

(vi) The sister and brother of that woman, even if they are her milk sister and milk brother.

(vii) Paternal uncle and paternal aunt of that woman, even if they are by milk, i.e. suckling.

(viii) Maternal uncle and maternal aunt of that woman, even if they are by milk i.e. suckling.

(ix) The descendants of the husband of that woman, (to whom milk belongs) even if they may be his milk children.

(x) Father and mother of that husband (to whom milk belongs), however high.

(xi) Sister and brother of the husband, (to whom milk belongs) even if they may be his milk sister and brother.

(xii) Paternal uncle and paternal aunt and maternal uncle and maternal aunt of the husband, (to whom milk belongs) however high, even if they are his milk uncles and aunts.

There are other persons also (details regarding whom will be given in the following rules) who become Mahram on account of sucking milk.

2474. If a woman suckles a child with the condition which will be mentioned in rule 2483, the father of the child cannot marry the daughters of that woman, but it is permissible for him to marry her milk daughters, although the recommended precaution is that he should not marry them. Moreover, he cannot marry the daughters of the husband also (to whom milk belongs), even if they may be his milk daughters. And if any one of them happens to be his wife already, his marriage becomes void.

2475. If a woman suckles a child with the conditions mentioned in rule 2483, the husband of that woman (to whom milk belongs) does not become Mahram of the sisters of that child, but the recommended precaution is that he should not marry them. Also, the relatives of the husband do not become Mahram of the sister and brother of that child.

2476. If a woman suckles a child, she does not become Mahram of the brothers of that child. Moreover, the relatives of that woman do not become Mahram of the brother and sister of the child suckled by her.

2477. If a person marries a woman who has suckled a girl fully, and if he has had sexual intercourse with her, he cannot marry that milk girl.

2478. If a person marries a girl, he cannot marry the woman who has suckled her fully.

2479. A man cannot marry a girl who has been suckled fully by his mother or paternal grandmother. Also, if his step-mother suckles a girl from the milk belonging to his father, he cannot marry that girl. And if a person contracts Nikah with a suckling girl, and thereafter, his mother or his paternal grandmother or his step-mother suckles that girl, the Nikah becomes void.

2480. A man cannot marry a girl who has been suckled fully by his sister, or by his brother's wife. And the position is the same if that girl is suckled by that man's niece (sister's daughter or brother's daughter) or the granddaughter of his sister or the granddaughter of his brother.

2481. If a woman suckles the child of her daughter i.e. her granddaughter, or grandson, the daughter will become haraam for her own husband, and the same applies if she suckles the child of the husband of her daughter from another wife. But if a woman suckles the child of her son, the wife of her son who is the mother of the suckling child, does not become haraam for her husband.

2482. If the step mother of a girl suckles the child of her husband, with the milk that belongs to the girl's father, the girl becomes haraam for her husband regardless of whether the child is the offspring of that very girl or of some other woman.

Conditions of Suckling Which Causes to be Mahram

2483. The following are the eight conditions under which suckling child becomes the cause of being Mahram.

(i) That the child sucks the milk of a woman who is alive. It is of no consequence if milk is drawn from the breast of a woman who is dead.

(ii) That the milk of the woman should not be the product of fornication or adultery. Hence, if the milk for an illegitimate child is breastfed to another child, the latter will not become Mahram of anyone.

(iii) That the child sucks milk directly from the breasts of the woman. Hence, if milk is poured into its mouth, it has no consequence.

(iv) That the milk be pure and unadulterated.

(v) That the milk be of one husband only. Hence, if a breast-feeding woman is divorced and then she marries another man by whom she becomes pregnant, if the milk of the first pregnancy still continues from the breast till she gives birth to the other child, and she feeds any child eight times with the milk from her first pregnancy before giving birth, and feeds the same child seven times with the milk from the second pregnancy, after giving birth, that child will not become Mahram of anyone.

(vi) That the child does not throw up the milk due to illness. If it vomits the milk, the suckling has no effect.

(vii) The suckling should be of such quantity that it could be said that the bones of the child were strengthened and the flesh allowed to grow. And if that cannot be ascertained, then if a child suckles for one full day and night, or if it suckles fifteen times to its fill, as will be explained later, it will be sufficient. But if it is known that in spite of the child having suckled for one full day and night, or for fifteen times, the milk has not had any effect on the bones and the growth of flesh of the child, then one should not ignore exercising the precaution.

(viii) That the child should not have completed two years of his age, and, if it is suckled after it has completed two years of its age, it does not become Mahram of anyone. In fact, if, for example, it sucks milk eight times before completing its two years, and seven times after completing its two years, it does not become Mahram of anyone. But, if milk continues from the breast for more than two years since a woman gave birth to her child, and she suckles the child continuously, that child will become Mahram of those who have been mentioned above.

2484. It is necessary that the suckling child should not have taken any other food, or sucked milk from any other person, during one full day and night. However, it it takes very little food, so little that one may not say that it has taken any food in between, there is no harm in it. Also, it should have suckled the milk of only one woman fifteen times, and during these fifteen times, it should not have sucked the milk of any other woman. And it should have sucked milk every time without a gap, though, if while suckling milk it pauses to breathe, or waits a little, in a manner that from the time it started till the end, it is taken as one suckling, there is no objection.

2485. If a woman suckles a child from the milk of her husband, and when she later marries another man, suckles another child from the milk of her second husband, those two children do not become Mahram of each other, although it is better that they do not marry each other.

2486. If a woman suckles several children from the milk of one husband, all of them become Mahram of one another, as well as of the husband, and of the woman who suckled them.

2487. If a man has more than one wife, and every one of them suckles a child in accordance with the conditions mentioned above, all those children become Mahram of one another, as well as of that man, and of all those wives.

2488. If a man has two nursing wives, and if, for example, one of them suckles the child eight times and the other suckles it seven times, the child does not become Mahram of any one of them.

2489. If a woman gives full milk to a boy and a girl from the milk of one husband, the sisters and brothers of that girl will not become Mahram of the sisters and brothers of that boy.

2490. * A man cannot marry without the permission of his wife, those women who became her nieces (sister's daughter or brother's daughter) owing to the suckling of milk. Also, if a person commits sodomy with a boy, he cannot marry his milk daughter, sister, mother and paternal grandmother by means of sucking milk. This rule applies also in the situation where an active partner in sodomy is not baligh, or when the passive partner is baligh.

2491. A woman who suckles the brother of a person, does not become Mahram of that person, although the recommended precaution is that he should not marry her.

2492. * A man cannot marry two sisters even if they may be milk sisters, that is, they have become sisters by means of suckling milk. If he marries two women and understands later that they are sisters, if he married them at one and the same time, both the Nikah will be void. But if he did not marry them at one time, the first marriage will be valid, and the second will be void.

2493. * If a woman suckles the following persons from her husband's milk, her husband does not become haraam for her, although it is better to observe precaution.

(i) Her own brother and sister.

(ii) Her own paternal uncle and paternal aunt, and maternal uncle and maternal aunt.

(iii) The descendants of her paternal uncle and her maternal uncle.

(iv) Her nephew (brother's son).

(v) Brother or sister of her husband.

(vi) Children of her sister, or children of her husband's sister.

(vii) Paternal uncle and paternal aunt and maternal uncle and maternal aunt of her husband.

(viii) Grand children of another wife of her husband.

2494. If a woman suckles the paternal aunt's daughter, or maternal aunt's daughter of a man, she (the woman who suckles) does not become Mahram of that man. However, the recommended precaution is that he should refrain from marrying that woman.

2495. If a man has two wives, and one of them suckles the paternal uncle's son of the other wife, the wife who suckled does not become haraam for her husband.

How To Breast Feed A Child

2496. The child's mother is the best person to suckle a child. It is better that she does not claim any award from her husband for suckling the child, although it is good that he should reward her for that. However, if the mother demands more payment for suckling than a wet-nurse, her husband can entrust the child to the wet-nurse.

2497. It is recommended that the wet-nurse, whose services are obtained for a child, should be Shia Ithna-Asheri, sane, chaste, and good looking; and it is Makrooh for a wet-nurse to be a non-Shia Ithna-Asheri or ugly, ill-humoured or illegitimate. It is also Makrooh to entrust the child to a wet-nurse who has given birth to an illegitimate child.

Miscellaneous Rules Regarding Nursing a Child

2498. * It is recommended that a woman avoids suckling any and every child, because it is possible that she may forget as to which of them she has suckled, and later the two persons, who are Mahram to each other, may contract marriage.

2499. It is recommended, if possible, that a child is suckled for full 21 months. And it is not preferred that it be suckled for more than two years.

2500. * If the right of the husband is not in any way violated by suckling, a wife may suckle the child of another person without the permission of her husband.

2501. * If a man contracts Nikah with a suckling girl, and the wife of that man suckles her, then it is considered that the wife becomes the mother-in-law of her husband, and therefore, becomes haraam for him. Although this consideration is not free from Ishkal, yet precaution should not be ignored.

2502. * If a person wants that his sister-in-law (his brother's wife) may become his Mahram, he may contract a temporary Nikah with a suckling girl, for example, for two days, and during those two days, the wife of his brother may suckle that girl as mentioned in rule no. 2483. By so doing, she will become his mother-in-law, and thus be Mahram. But if the woman suckles the girl from his brother's milk, it is a matter of Ishkal.

2503. If a man says before marrying a woman, that the woman he is marrying is his milk sister, she is haraam for him, if his statement is verified as true. And if he says this after the marriage, and the woman also confirms his word, the marriage is void. Hence, if the man has not had sexual intercourse with her, or has had sexual intercourse but at the time of sexual intercourse the woman knew that she was haraam for him, she is not entitled to any Mahr. And if she learns after sexual intercourse that she was haraam for the man, the husband should pay her Mahr according to the usual Mahr of other women like her.

2504. If a woman says, before marriage, that she is haraam for a man because she is his milk sister, and if it is possible to verify her statement as true, she cannot marry that man. And if she says this after marriage, it is like the man saying after marriage that the woman is haraam for him, and the rule in this situation has been given in the foregoing clause.

2505. * Suckling a child, which becomes the cause of being Mahram, can be established by the following two ways:

(i) Information in this behalf by a number of persons whose word is

reliable.

(ii) Two just men testify to this fact. It is, however, necessary that they should also mention the conditions of suckling the child. For example, they should be able to say, "We have seen the child for twenty four hours, sucking milk from the breasts of a woman, and during this time he has not eaten anything else." And similarly, they should also narrate in detail, the conditions which have been mentioned in rule no. 2483. Witness by one man or two or four women, even if they are Adil, is a matter of Ishkal for establishing that the child has suckled from a particular woman.

2506. If it is doubted whether or not a child has sucked the quantity of milk which becomes the cause of becoming Mahram, or if it is considered probable that it might have sucked that quantity of milk, the child does not become Mahram of anyone, though it is better to observe precaution.

[Batul]

Bruder Mustafa,

 

Vielen Dank für die riesen Mühe

 

Aber ich muss zugeben, dass ich vieles zum ersten Mal lese, und auch noch nie in der Praxis gesehen habe, wie zB. The children to whom that woman has given birth or those who are born later sollen auch in Verwandtschaft miteinander tretten :schock: Ich möchte mir gar nicht anmaßen irgend ein Urteil darüber abzugeben, aber ehrlich gesagt, erscheint es mir nicht ganz verständlich, dass dem so ist....Ich habe es bisher noch nie gehört, noch habe ich es in der Praxis erlebt.... :S Na ja, man muss noch viel lernen...

 

Herzlichen Dank nochmal

 

Liebe Grüße

 

 

Batul